by Ashley
So, coming right on the heels of this email, I just received another email about a potential job (maybe)?? However, the email really just confused me. I need your help to decipher what this is all about…..
First, to back up, let me remind you about the status of my job search situation.
I seemed to have two promising job leads:
One of them is for a position here in Tucson. That’s the one I referenced here. I’ve been through a formal phone interview with them and have been invited for a campus interview, to occur in a couple weeks.
The second job lead is for a position out-of-state. I referenced it way back here. As a brief summary, this job lead has been weird from the start. I was initially contacted by email and asked to set up a time to talk by phone. Naturally, I assumed this was a phone interview and I prepared accordingly. However, it turned out to be a super casual conversation with the search chair (he was in an airport at the time), and I was told the committee loved me and was very interested in having me come for a campus interview. Yes – skipping a phone interview entirely and going straight to a campus interview (if you’re in academia you know how weird this is). I was told they were interviewing for a full professor in Nov/Dec and an assistant professor in Feb/March, so I’d be contacted in the New Year sometime. This was from back in October.
Fast forward to today.
I receive an email from a new person (who took over the role of committee chair from the last guy I spoke with). Here is, verbatim, portions of the email I received (I’m omitting identifying information about the university, department, etc.):
Although you were not invited for an interview during our recent search process, members of our faculty were very impressed by your application and identified you as somebody we would like to get to know better. As such, we would like to invite you to [come here] to be our guest for a day this semester. We would like to have you present your research to our faculty, visit with the faculty both informally over meals and more formally with those who might have similar research interests and, in general, allow us to become better acquainted with you and hopefully you with us. Again, this isn’t an invitation for an interview but rather simply a chance for us to meet you as you were an individual who stood out to us during our search process as somebody with whom we want to become more familiar. Please let me know at your earliest convenience if this is something that you might be interested in and we can begin working on the logistics of scheduling.
What the what???
Sooooo, if not an interview, what is this??? I have never heard of something like this before! Surely it is an interview, right? But he specifically says it is not one. What does this mean????
I feel like I’m somewhat in a bind because I feel awkward going to my old advisors to ask about this given that I’m currently in the interviewing process for a position at that university. I don’t know where to turn for advice on this situation!
Additionally, I feel like I’m psyching myself out before anything even happens. Job lead #2 (the “not-an-interview” job) is a more prestigious position at a very prestigious university. I almost feel like an impostor trying to fit in. These people know I’ve never had a professor position before, right? Why are they so interested in me???
It feels so much more comfortable just to invest in trying to get the position here in Tucson. It’s familiar, easy, and we get to stay where we are (meaning no job changes for husband, no moving costs, etc.). But apparently job lead #2 isn’t even an interview to begin with??? What is it then??? Really just a chance to get to know each other??? What are we going to do, start collaborating or something?? I’m just so confused!!!!!
Of course, I’m going to reply to the email and say I’d love to come for a visit. There’s no reason not to take them up on that opportunity. But the whole thing makes me nervous and the fact that I thought it was for a campus interview, and it turns out to not be an interview is just so….baffling???
I know there are some academics that read here. Someone, shed some light on this for me!
What does this all mean???? Where would you turn for guidance (is it a ‘no-no’ to go back to my old advisors while in the interview process??)
Hi, I’m Ashley! Arizonan on paper, Texan at heart. Lover of running, blogging, and all things cheeeeese. Freshly 40, married mother of two, working in academia. Trying to finally (finally!) pay off that ridiculous 6-digit student loan debt!
I think they are trying to make it clear that they don’t have a job available at the moment, but they want to get to know you, in case something opens in the future. It is sort of like a second tier interview….they are interested enough to want more information, but they don’t have a position to offer.
I wouldn’t turn down a campus visit if they are covering all your expenses. But if they just want you to come by…I would say that you appreciate the invitation, and the next time you plan on being in that area, you would love to arrange a time to meet up. Don’t waste time and money if there isn’t a job.
Without giving away too much information (again, trying to keep the university anonymous), I do not think money is an issue. If they wanted me, I think they’d have the salary line to offer me a job. It also wasn’t made clear whether travel expenses were covered but I assumed that surely they would be. What do you think having read the email? They didn’t say “we’d like you to drop by”, they said “we’d like to invite you….”
This is my first time experiencing this, so you could be right but the whole thing is very confusing to me. Not what I’d expected at all.
Ugh! I’m torturing myself analyzing this!
Now I think you might be right that there’s not a job to offer presently. I do think they’d pay for my trip, though. Very common to pay for someone to come give a talk at a colloquium series, meet faculty, have lunch, etc.. But the whole context is just so strange. Why would the search chair be contacting me for this type of thing, rather than an administrator or the regular symposium organizer? I have to let this go for now – I’m off to find an interview outfit for job lead #1!
Hi there! I work in academia (science background) and, to me, this reads as a meet and greet with the potential for collaboration in the future. I think it’s worth finding out a bit more about the proposal though it may not lead to a future job there. Still, it could open many doors! Sadly, it sometimes boils down to who you know. My husband is also an academic (humanities) and, at least for him, it would be well within the mentor/former student bounds to ask his advisors and former professors for their input regarding this type of request.
I think it just depends on your relationship with your advisors. This type of proposal is fairly common within my husband’s department. They tend to invite visiting researchers to give guest lectures and/or have dinner with the department heads. Good luck!
Ugh! I was replying, above, as you were posting this. I could certainly see this as a colloquium series, but why am I being contacted by the search committee chair instead of the colloquium organizer (or a faculty member interested in potential collaboration)? And within the context, given that during my last interaction I was being told I’d have a campus interview in Feb/March, it’s all just so odd. Why not be clear about what’s happened with that (the search for an assistant professor)?
I agree that it’s very odd! This person should have followed up with you about the position in addition to extending this invitation. This could be a long shot, but I wonder if they are trying to get a new lecture series off the ground and running. Perhaps this is a pet project for the search committee chair or maybe it’s part of a new endowment. Who knows! I would be totally confused on this one too!
I do not work in academia, but it sounds to me like good HR. They are building relationships with talented people (i.e. you) to have a useful talent pool to fill future or anticipated vacancies.
THIS!!!
You should ask Nicole & Maggie what they think:https://nicoleandmaggie.wordpress.com/
They are two academics who have an interesting blog.
P.S. I’m not an academic myself, but read a lot of PF blogs. Long time lurker here.
We do this sometimes (not the bait and switch part, but the inviting potential candidates out on a not an interview prior to an interview). Usually we do it when there has been some bureaucratic snafu and we need to figure out say, what to put in a new ad to fix the snafu. Sometimes we do it because we’re really interested in the candidate but want to do extra wooing–that is usually before a candidate applies though.
If it is a state school I would take this as a good sign and assume there has been a paperwork screw up and they can’t legally have you out for an interview. If it is private then who knows what is going on. Might as well visit!
AJ – thanks for the comment! Happy to have you as a reader! And thanks for the lead on the interesting new-to-me blog!
Argh… I hate squishy communications like this! I don’t blame you for being confused. I would take them up on the visit, if only just to network. I think it’s pretty awesome they were that impressed with you. I don’t know how to tactfully ask about travel expense… I’m sure someone else here would be able to come up with the verbiage.
Oh, and I imagine even universities with large endowments have to follow tight budgets. Plus, just because a university has a huge budget doesn’t mean a specific department has lots of money to spend.
I take that there is not a position available therefore it is not a job interview. I would accept the invitation . However, I would definately ask for clarification on the status of the position and travel expenses. This is just my opinion. I am not familiar with academia. Good luck with both visits!
Here’s my two cents. Sometimes when the university I work for doesn’t have the budget to hire someone they like, we like to stay in touch with that person so that we can invite them to apply for a position that we are in the process of getting funded. My guess is that they know they are going to have a position in the near future, but the can’t advertise/interview for that position until funding comes through.
Also, regardless of how prestigious you find the place, every department has a budget. There is so much red tape with budgets in higher education. I get the sense that you’re not coming in with lots of grant funding already lined up for your research, so the department is going to have to have funding to hire you.
I have a personal policy to follow all leads until they reach a natural conclusion. One thing always comes out as a clear winner in the end but it isn’t always the one you expect. This may not be an interview but it certainly sounds like they have an interest and I would definitely assume they are paying.
Contrarian viewpoint: don’t waste your time with these jokers. Reasons:
1. Why would you want to go play nice with them when they clearly already chose someone else? Self-respect.
2. Imagine they found a position for you. What would it be like working with people who can’t even commit to an interview? What will it be like when you need them to commit budget, class schedules, other stuff for you? Ask yourself if you want to work with this person if this is how they handle a professional search.
Maybe the contrarian view is wrong and it’s good to network with them on their dime – if your schedule and budget and family allow for it. Otherwise maybe suggest you’d love to catch up with them at an upcoming conference you’ll be at or something. Or press the search chair to make a clear statement to you before you schedule your time: “I appreciate the invitation but as you know this is interview season and I am very focused on preparing. I would love to visit with your faculty if there is an open position you are considering me for or if you have a specific objective for collaboration in mind.”
This is so ballsy! Not to be a sex-stereotyper, but I suspect this is the type of thing a man could TOTALLY get away with (and even be respected for it), but if a woman were to say the exact same thing, she’s labeled a bitch and disliked. Risky, for sure.
Agreed. (on the issue of how men v. women would be perceived for saying that). The different workplace expectations for the sexes is real.
I hate to agree with you both on this because it is so stupid and sexist, but . . . agreed.
I don’t agree. I think a professional woman is expected to be direct in a non-confrontational way based on decades of coaching executives and others on leadership.
Interesting viewpoint – I never would have thought of it that way. That sucks that you have to walk on eggshells but I guess it’s wise that you are aware of it.
I don’t consider it ballsy as much as I consider it maybe jaded from my years in corporate America. I’ve just learned a thing or two about reading between the lines and minimizing wasted time.
Maybe Juhli is right that you just need some clarification but I still maintain that this communication could tell you a lot about how this department is run. Seems like the type of department that may not pay a contractor for several months, for example.
Keep the lines of communication open but be careful with your time.
I hope you can push yourself to actually talk to this person to clarify the situation. Trying to guess what might happen, why he is the one reaching out, etc. is just that – guesses. How about a communication saying that you are happy they would like you to spend a day with them but would like more clarification about the purpose and focus?
I agree with Juhli.
I agree too. Why not just ask them for clarification?
I’d put it down as networking. If your career is to be a long one, the more contacts you make the better positioned you’ll be later in life. Go (if it is on their dime and won’t interfere with ‘real’ interviews.)
At the same time, this isn’t a job interview so no hopes. See this only as a self-marketing exercise. My son-in-law (dsil) was brought to our city for what he thought was an interview at the local university. I was excited. My daughter (who hated living across the country) was excited. When I asked my dsil how it went he said it was weird. It was more that they were selling themselves to him, not the other way around. At the end, they said they’d contact him when the funding came through.
He went home and waited, and waited. Over a year went by. Nothing. He still had no ‘real’ job and they felt isolated so they paid to move themselves across the country to the city with the university he wanted to work at. The thought process was he’d be in a better position to make contacts, maybe a contract, and eventually get a professorship. Ten weeks later, he was offered a job with the government in my city and that 300 mile move was paid for (but not the cross country move – sigh.)
Who knows, some day he may get an offer from academia but in the meantime he has an excellent government job, years after his trip here for the university position. (BTW: it was over 2 years from the application date, to the date he started working for the government so in his line of research, the timelines are looonnnnngggg.)
Yup, the first search chair messed up, the second one is trying to get the ball rolling but can’t invite anyone for an interview according to their protocol. So he/she isn’t saying. But they aren’t going to spend their interview money flying you somewhere without a reason. So go meet some nice folks and pay very careful attention to the way they organize the visit. If they won’t improve on self-organization later. You don’t want the committee assignments that come in dysfunctional departments. That will kill a young faculty career.
And confirm that they are actually paying for your travel!