by Hope
This is truly just a advice looking post, not something I have firm plans on.
Do you think it’s important to take your kids on their first flight?
My littles have flown before, several times, and while they were young, they don’t fear it. Now my twins had never left the state before being placed with me, and the idea of flying scares them. As they get older, they are 16 now, more opportunities present themselves for them to fly. For instance, with Sea Cadet’s participation in the Navy Sea Cadet program, when he gets to be a junior in high school, they are given the chance to do exchange programs with international bases. It seems super cool to me and to him, but as a mom, the thought of him scared, for the first time on a plane…well, it just doesn’t sit right with me.
I keep thinking that I need to make the effort to at least take them on a short flight so they know the nuances and culture of the airport. Again, no plans, just a protective mom’s thoughts as they are reach these independent ages. And I know flying certainly has financial implications.
So let me know your thoughts on this please.
(Felt I needed to add this subtext to this one. Because of the twins early life experiences, they are not the “norm” as far as confidence and independence. So while yes, some of my question is me being over-protective, some of it, is having kids who started having what many American’s would call “normal” experiences very late in their childhood.)
Hope is a creative, solutions-focused business manager helping clients grow their business and work more efficiently by leveraging expertise in project management, digital marketing, & tech solutions. She’s recently become an empty nester as her 5 foster/adoptive kids have spread their wings. She lives with her 3 dogs in a small town in NE Georgia and prefers the mountains to the beaches any day. She struggles with the travel bug and is doing her best to help each of her kids as their finish schooling and become independent (but it’s hard!) She has run her own consulting company for almost twenty years! Hope began sharing her journey with the BAD community in the Spring of 2015 and feels like she has finally in a place to really focus on making wise financial decisions.
I think it is important for you to take them on a flight for the first time given their childhood and the level of anxiety they have about flying. If you are keen on staying on budget while paying off debt, I would recommend saving up some money for their first flight when it becomes more of a necessity rather than just to show them how to fly.
Good points!
The most important thing to do is to make flying not a big deal. If you are nervous about them it will make them more nervous about flying. How about picking a place relatively close by – look at Spirit and Southwest and plan a quick trip – even just a day – for a field trip for either the boys and you or the whole family. I had a very abnormal childhood – and there have been lots of times i have appreciated it not being an issue. I’m sure you know this BTW – but I fly a lot – the nuance and culture of the airport is very different everywhere. And check with airlines/airport near you – they often have classes for nervous flyers and programs (usually aimed at autistic kids – i’m not saying your kids are) that introduce new young flyers to how things work – TSA, check in, etc.
True! I am not a nervous flyer at all so if we come to it, that should help! Thanks for the feedback!
i think it’s probably best to see if you can separate what are your fears from what are theirs. I would probably just ask them if they thought it would help. A lot of times, mom’s do things that are honestly just assuaging THEIR fears and the kids are indifferent. im not that far removed from being the kid in that department so i remember vividly lots of times my mom would fly over to help me move and things like that. I apprecited the help (plus when she was around she paid for stuff) but honestly, if she hadn’t come it wouldn’t have made a difference to me…but SHE was nervous about me moving cross country – and why would i say no to help.
point of all that, is if they say it really won’t make a difference either way then there’s no point spending the money. If the think it would be a huge deal – then yes maybe save towards a small flight. At the end of the day, you want kids that can adapt to new situations and not need someone to always help them through.
You are right, debtor. It is definitely a bridge we will cross when we come to it. I hope I am just projecting.
I just have “mom fears” of my eldest’s first flight being international and having no experience to help him through those awfully long flights.
Luckily, I have at least another year before that could become a reality (they have to be juniors in high school to do an international Sea Cadet camp.)
I wouldn’t lose much sleep over this one.
They are 16, flying is ultimately not hard (just have to show up and follow basic directions), and there are others to help (flight attendants have special training for first-time fliers traveling alone).
Just make sure there are clear instructions on pickup on the other end!
Ha, the pick up end…baggage claim alone would need a whole new set of instructions! Thanks for the feedback!
As an airline employee (non-crew) and as someone who didn’t fly commercially until I graduated from college, I think that SAK and debtor both have good points. I know you said that they didn’t have ‘normal’ childhoods but make sure that you’re not projecting your fears onto them. There are going to be a lot of times in their lives that they are going to have ‘firsts’ that you won’t be around for – for whatever reason (unless they live with you forever, of course). NOTE: I’ve always been fascinated with flying & my first actual flight was in a 4-seat Cessna when I was in the 8th grade.
Like SAK said, all airports are different, and I’m not sure that a roundtrip flight where you don’t connect through a major airport (like on Spirit, Allegiant, Southwest, maybe JetBlue?) would be of much benefit. If you’re flying on a major airline these days, 90% of the time you will have a connecting flight – it’s just how it’s set up. However, taking them to an airport to show them how things work is not a bad idea. You can also bring up airport maps on the internet to show them what the airports are like. Another option would be to purchase a RT ticket for yourself from your airport to the hub & back the first time they have to fly somewhere. That way you could at least get them to the hub and to their gate for their connecting flight.
Another thought: if you have a small local airport (one where the private pilots keep their planes), take them there. The old pilots would LOVE to talk to the kids about flying and show them their plane. They could even see some planes take off & land up close & personal.
Great suggestions, Jean! My mom, who has been flying for decades still has trouble with connecting flights, especially through ATL.
I really appreciated all the opinions today, definitely food for thought for the future!
If you’re really worried, I think you could take them on a quick flight and show that it’s really not a big deal and that it’s no different from any other mode of transportation. I’m sure someone mentioned this already, but it should be okay as long as you’re not projecting your worries onto them. Maybe you can emphasize the destination of the trip itself and not the process of flying. If they’re excited to get to the place (exchange program), the emotions of feeling scared of the flight might be reduced.
I think as a mom, it probably is more of me projecting all the “what ifs” so I appreciate all the commenters today who pointed that out. And the suggestions if it comes to a situation where I really do need to “hand hold” for the first flight.
Another option is to check connections through your homeschool group to see if anyone knows a pilot or an airport employee who can get you a tour of a local airport. If there is a simulator nearby, a pilot may be able to make arrangements to take them to that if getting on a commercial flight won’t be an option before the first Sea Cadet trip.
If you’re not able to fly with him or have him in a simulator beforehand, make sure an adult will sit near him and explain what to expect while talking and taking his mind off take-offs and landings. I went on a trip recently with a 16-year-old who had flown before but who had developed generalized anxiety since her last plane trip. Another adult sat with her and just talked to help distract her until we were in the air or on the ground. If needed, talk with your doctor about meds to help with anxiety for the trip–many adults take them before boarding, and the girl on our flight took them as well.
Good luck!
I am a bit disappointed in this post. I really think you need to re-think your participation in this blog. This blog is about debt reduction. Your posts are anything but debt reduction. I’d rather see you focus your time and energy on meeting with an attorney to get some regular child support and visitation for the kids. I’d like to see you sell his car or get the car put in his name, regardless of what the divorce decree states. If you were a co-signer or the only signer on the loan, then you are liable and it affects your ability to get a mortgage or loan. I’d rather see a post where you’ve had some conversations with the mortgage banker about what it would take for you to get a loan meaning what you need to do now so that you can get a mortgage later. Knowing up front that you need to get your name off the car loan, pay off the debt, know how much you need to put down and the type of loans available would be helpful. Also, being self employed, you’ll want to ask what they’ll need. Having regular conversations with this banker as you resolve some of these issues would put you in a position for success, especially with manual underwriting, in cases where you didn’t meet the “textbook” loan requirements. These things take time and knowing this stuff up front gives you time to fix some of these issues and puts you in a better position for financial success later.
I’d like to see you learn to be a bit more money savvy. Learning about money will help you make better financial decisions later. Instead, you are focusing your time on bartering for housing, deciding which trip to take and worrying about things that shouldn’t even be on your radar at this time. Getting your financial house in order should be the first priority. What are you going to do if the week after you take your trip, your car breaks down and the car repair is the cost or more than the money you just spent on your trip? What about the kids braces? I think you need to take a step back and look at some of this stuff. The kids shouldn’t be making the decisions, you should. Once you get on your feet and your financial house in order, then you can share your tips with them.
Perhaps some internal focusing is in order as well. Why is it o.k. for you to sell your vehicle because you can’t afford it and want to pay off debt, but it’s “okay” for him to skip child support payments or be unable to get a loan in his name? Why can’t he go to a loan officer and try to figure out how to get the car in his name? Why isn’t he involved in these kids lives? Kids need both parents in their lives unless of course, one parent is really unfit. It’s obvious you need help and that’s not unique to you but to most single mothers.
As a single mother, I think it’s great that you want to do all of these things for your kids, but your focus and decision making needs to be sharpened. I think more people, especially single parents, could relate to these types of posts. Most single parents know it’s not easy to raise kids alone, let alone four kids so no one expects perfection but posts related to bettering your finances would be more appropriate for this blog.
Well said!
Mary,
I don’t know how closely you follow my particular line so I am going to address your points.
1. My ex husband is ABUSIVE. There is NO WAY in HELL I would give him free reign access to my children. I am sorry he doesn’t visit them or make the slightest effort BUT MORE SO I don’t have to explain to him that they are scared of him and do not want to be alone with him.
2. Money from him…when he has it and I ask, he provides whatever they need. He has had some lean months, we all do, but the fact of the matter if the government was involved and told him how much he had to provide it would 1) be hard for them to collect since he never works for anyone but himself and 2) be far less than he provides when he can. (I know this from watching other’s STRUGGLE to get even the pennies the courts award them.)
3. I am in the middle of 2 months where I have absolutely NO DISCRETIONARY money budgeted so we can go to the twins prom. So what would you have me write about? I don’t have any decisions to make right now. I am saving every dime that doesn’t go to monthly bills to 1) begin living on last month’s income in one month and 2) to be able to reach my goal that I set in January to pay off all consumer debt. So what exactly should I write about here if you don’t want these kind of queries asking about future financial decision when I am just 1 debt away from being debt free come July. Please advise, because coming up with topics for the next several weeks is already challenging to me.
4. As for the housing situation…1) I have never bartered for housing, taht would be great, but never one I have attempted. 2) When I wrote about the housing loan situation, I indicated there was already more to the story…you just have to wait for it. Believe me I was made very well aware of what I need to do IF I choose to pursue buying/building a house. Just because I haven’t written it, does not make me ignorant of the situation. Remember, I started that post with the fact that for years I had been looking/researching. I knew my old house was two small, the minute I made the decision to adopt the twins. The very hard fought, stressed over, researched decision to adopt the twins, I would add.
I have no idea why a post simply asking for opinions on whether “hand-holding” for flying was necessary. There are NO plans to fly at this point, which I also pointed out. But with two months and no money to spend…well, all I have is time to think and plan for the future so these questions are going to come up. I’m sorry if it offends you.
bravo!
Mary,
While I agree with some of the sentiment in your post. I find it to be quite judgemental. Hope has said before, that her ex-hubby is out of the question. Let’s respect that. Take it at face value. She is not obliged to share such personal items with us and so I think if she has said that’s not on the table for discussion – then we as readers should respect that and leave it out of the equation. Let’s give helpfule suggestions without bringing that into the picture. She’s not a younger sister to berate.
I think a lot of what you said is helpful – in terms of concrete steps to take. I think it’s clear to a lot of readers that Hope is a dreamer at heart and could definitely focus her decision making but people have to grow at their own pace. I just think that the delivery of your comment is not made in a way that one can take the good advice because they will immediately get defensive.
I’m not acting you and possibly you didn’t realize it but it just came of a little sanctimonious to me. Why should she “re-think her participation in this blog” because there are things YOU would like to see? Again, I agree with the general sentiment of your post but…yea that’s all.
I agree with a lot of what you said esp. the stuff about the kids making the decisions except for the stuff about the ex husband. I think it is disrespectful of you to dictate how he should be in Hope’s life and how he should be in the children’s life. Have you met the man? Hope has and she has said that she is not open to his involvement. We should respect her decision. I also think Hope should stay on the blog. I think she needs our help and while we don’t all agree on every decision she makes I think as a community we have had a positive impact on her financial life.
Hope just wants to take a trip and is using this as an excuse
i also agree with mary’s response.
hope it seems like you spend an awful lot of time finding ways to spend money when you should be spending that time finding new ways to save money. i know that it would not be as exciting but it would sure pay off in the long run.
this kind of thinking on your part as a mother seems a little weird to me. you won’t be holding their hands for that first big date or that first job interview.
Ginsue,
You did see the beginning of this post where I said I had no plans to pursue flying anytime soon…was just asking for the reader’s opinions on the subject, right?
And in fact, I did coach them through their first “dates” and “job interviews.” I have no idea why this would be weird as a parent, no idea at all.
sorry about that but i guess i read this sentence the wrong way. “This is truly just a advice looking post, not something I have firm plans on.”
i guess my focus was on this one…”I keep thinking that I need to make the effort to at least take them on a short flight so they know the nuances and culture of the airport.
and sure i understand that you did some “coaching” for the first date and job interview so maybe that same technique would also work in regards to flying.
i do understand your concerns as a mother because i have two sons in their early 30’s.
i did not take my first flight until i was 19 years old and leaving home to join the military and things worked out just fine.
Guys, it’s just a blog post asking for a little advice!
Not some window into Hope’s overall perspective on life and debt.
Can’t we have a few posts now and then where we all (the commenters) just focus on the narrow content of an individual post instead of making broad sweeping judgments?
I agree!! Previous bloggers have had non-financial posts, and knowing more about a person’s life can help us understand their situation better. At the same time, we are not entitled to know every little thing about their lives, nor are we entitled to tell them how to live their lives. We are NOT them, and they know their situation much better than we possible could.
And the level of judgment in some of the comments is astounding.
Well said, debtor. Not everyone fits into the same box (wouldn’t it be boring if we did) and Hope’s experiences are different from Ashley’s, from Matt’s, from mine, from everyones and all we can do is be helpful and respectful. We don’t necessarily have to agree with every (or any) decision, but we can support the PERSON, no matter what.
Hope. Our 21 year old son went on an overseas semester last fall. It’s the first time he’s flown since he was 7 years old. We took him to the airport, waved to the plane as it left, and then worried and worried for the next 48 hours as his connection was missed (airline’s fault), he got rerouted to another airport for an overnight, and then finally got to his foreign destination. He then had to get to an ATM, withdraw euros, lease an overseas phone, get on the correct train, find his apartment, meet his landlord, sign the lease, find a grocery store, etc etc etc….and then go to class two days later. All of this in a country with a different language, different customs, etc AND his luggage was lost for 4 days so he had to communicate with the airlines until they delivered it to his new apartment. He did it all, was very proud of himself and gained a lot of independence and confidence.
As parents, we talked him thru a lot of this in advance – we helped him set up overseas bank accounts, find his apartment, etc…..and we discussed what to expect in the airports with security, luggage, and flying etiquette.
I think it was harder for us than for him – truly! For him it was an adventure – sometimes stressful, but mostly great. So my point is that in my opinion our job as parents is to prepare them as best we can for a new experience and then let them go and experience it all – the good and the bad.
Hope this helps!
I also want to add Hope, that I DO enjoy reading your posts. Just don’t want you to get discouraged from writing (i know i’m usually not shy about pointing out things I disagree with so I wanted to make sure it came across that I’m also here as a cheerleader)
I would like to hear an update about the phone bill in a future post. It’s extemely expensive at a time where there are great low cost options. I was so happy to get my husbands cell phone bill down to $35 through Straight Talk.
Another post would be to do a side by side comparison of how much you’re saving by living in the apartment versus the house.
Have you shopped around for car insurance lately? I always love when I can find a good policy for less. Your car and living situation have changed, which affects car insurance rates.
Have you begun to do some research on homeschooling choices for next year? Perhaps there are ways to trim a few dollars off of future expenses by planning ahead.
I forget if you have any savings accounts for future expenses. If so, can you discuss what that account all covers? I assume car registration is much cheaper now than it was on the van.
Have the twins been looking into the costs to get their drivers license or purchase a used car? Do they have learners permits or are they going through drivers ed?
Hopefully these couple ideas for post suggestions will appeal to you!
Awesome, awesome, awesome, Walnut! Thank you for the writing prompts…have definitely saved them for review as I start writing for these next several weeks!
I’m a long time blog reader but just recently started reading the comments. Yikes. I’m surprised anyone continues to write here. I hope my message comes out as intended. There are a number of ways I closely relate to you…single mother, abusive ex, big heart for kids, etc. Reading your last several posts, I got to wondering: have you sat and thought about the life you want to give your children? I intend no judgment in that whatsoever. What I mean is, your dream is to have a big house and be able to take in (foster/adopt/…) many more children. Yet at the moment, you are making a lot of trade-offs – little gymnast can’t go to regionals, you have to sacrifice all your fun money for months to take a mini vacation with the family, any sort of plane trip seems like a pipe dream with all the higher-priority demands in your budget, you’re living in very cramped quarters, you are probably facing bigger/more car needs soon as the twins age…
It just seems like there are so many demands on your money, and you need to make so many sacrifices to get by. I congratulate you on all that you have been doing, scrimping and saving to get out of debt! I just wonder if when there is more financial breathing room, you would prefer to have more flexibility/fewer sacrifices with the children you already have, rather than taking on more foster children and potentially facing as many financial constraints and sacrifices as you do today.
Like I said, there is zero judgment intended and I don’t even have an opinion on it. Just wondered whether you had thought about the situation in that light. You probably have, you’re a deep-thinker 🙂
Hi Rachel,
And welcome to the comments section! I think somehow my latest posts have been mis-construed to be “we can’t afford” rather than we are “choosing this.” We could have gone to Little Gymnast Regionals, we have the money to do it debt free; however, with our goal of becoming debt free and my thoughts on his success there, I CHOSE not to spend the money that way this year.
We have CHOSEN to live on a really tight budget right now with the tradeoff of being completely consumer debt free this summer. And we also CHOSE to spend our fun money on a mini-vacation to Great Wolf. Just 6 weeks after this mini-vacation we will be completely consumer debt free and the $2400 I am putting toward debt each month with be completely free. (Aside from my student loans, but that’s for another discussion.)
The housing situation is an entirely different matter, you are right…so there will be more discussions on that one.
Thank you so much for your input. I hope this clears up what the situation is a bit.
Good perspective and GREAT attitude! I feel the same way and face a lot of similar circumstances and choices. You’re doing a fantastic job. I admire your strength, tenacity, and energy in your very full life! Your kids are blessed to have you.
One thing I value about Hope’s posts is insight into how her life and circumstances inform her decisions. I think it’s great that she isn’t spending money and time trying to get her ex-husband to pay child support. It sounds like it would be money and time ill-spent, and encourage her to focus on changing someone else’s behavior while taking time away from working on things she can change. I think if you read Hope’s post all together, you can see growth and change.
Just had to comment again – but about the comments this time (sorry). I read all of your posts but understand not everyone can/does/wants to. But if you are critiquing Hope’s decisions then make sure you do read enough to have context. You’ve explained about th ex- and many of the issues raised a number of times. At some point people need to start respecting your choices – or stop reading when you fundamentally disagree with the writer!!!! I also found it crazy that you had a whole bunch of comments telling you that you should have done everything to take Little Gymnast to regionals and a whole other group (hopefully not the same people) how even thinking about a plan trip is terrible. I’m impressed you put up with all of us!
We all view things through the lens of our personal experience and forget that we know just a tiny portion of your story. It would be great if folks thought more of that before commenting.
Hi Hope, I don’t think wanting to fly and having never flown is a big deal. I never flew till I was 30, and that was only for a business trip. To this day, I rarely fly, not because I have a fear of it but because I’d rather drive and have my own transportation.
Another thought I had was how your children take on new adventures. My children have a lot of nervousness and excitement for new things they have never experienced, but do not let their nervousness stop them from moving forward. If your children are usually that way, I wouldn’t be concerned at all. They will experience flying when they are ready.
I took my first flight at age 16, alone, and the second one on a business trip when I was in my early 20’s. I had no problems adjusting or navigating the airport, and actually enjoyed the bit of freedom and adventure. In fact, the first time I ever flew somewhere with my parents was when I was 38 and we took them along with us to the Cayman Islands to help watch our son who was six weeks old at the time.
I would think it is a big waste of money to take a flight, just to fly, without a reason to go to the destination. There are also options for unaccompanied minors where they can be accompanied by an airline employee, for a small fee, who will make sure that they get where they are going and help them through any issues.
My son has been lucky in that at age eight he could easily navigate the airport by himself if he had to. We started having him read the boarding passes, and signage, to locate security, gates, and baggage claim a couple of years ago when we travel. He ‘leads’ us to where we need to go, and we do the same at the hotels so that he can find the room… it is a fun math exercise for him (reading the signs to see whether the room number falls within the range to the left or right, knowing what floor to go to, etc.).
You could make a fun homeschooling exercise by setting up an ‘airport’ at home and having them walk through the process of weighing/checking luggage, getting boarding passes, going through security, finding the gate, reading the status board to see any flight changes, etc. Then visiting your local airport to see the counter, security, etc…. minus actually traveling to the gate of course.